SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 7 2008

Truth, Consequences, Consciousness?

Local Discussion Forums

Truth, Consequences, Consciousness?

Jeffery DeCelles | 09.15.06 | 11:09 PM |
5
(2 ratings)
Jeffery DeCelles's picture

How fortunate, Gary, to have experienced so much. All "eighteen traditional criteria" met "100%, plus some". A remarkable act of self-certification in one paragraph.
Lacking such credentials, I can only take solace in the egalitarian equanimity of the psychedelic gateway. What it may presumably lack in authenticity is, to my mind, well balanced by its accessibility.
I agree on the necessity for strong cautionary admonition, but on the basis of the virtual certainty of some non-trivial experiences arising from ingestion of effective doses of these agents.
Rapturous delight, traumatic terror, indescribable wonder all await the turn of these molecular keys, with no assurances but one-the explorer will not return unaltered.
If any trite admonition be emblazoned over such gates, perhaps "ABANDON EGO, ALL YE WHO ENTER" would suffice. I've always recovered mine, eventually, somewhat diminished in stature. Or so I hope.
Jeffery DeCelles

DiscoverDeclareShare

Member Comments:

Submitted by Gary Groesbeck on September 16, 2006 - 1:18pm.

Jeff, sorry if I sounded a little over the top on the criteria thing. I didn't make them up and only discovered them some 40 years later. After reading them I realized that I had experienced all of them... and I do say that with all humility. It was not an experience sought after, but was really an act of grace, a gift of the higher spirit.


If there were an easy road back I wouldn't have taken all those trips, just to discover that "where ever you go, there you are". Perhaps for me the most valuable part of all the psychedelics was realizing I am the ever present awareness, not all of the show swirling around it. So my humble apologies, I'm not really all that enlightened... I just had a really good trip and I sometimes get a little too enthusiastic about it.


On the other hand researchers do need to be a little more careful about what they are defining as "mystical". I have worked in neurofeedback for a number of years now and I feel what we're looking for is in delta, with a possible phase shift that appears as a greatly attenuated amplitude in all frequencies...just a guess at this point.


Thanks for the feedback...much more work to be done.

Submitted by Jeffery DeCelles on September 17, 2006 - 8:49am.

Thanks, Gary. I'm honored by your response, and salute your expression of humility. No doubt, "mystical" is a term in need of redemption, having been orphaned by centuries of Rationalism and Scholastic obfuscation. Wiktionary relates the term to a Greek work meaning "initiate", and that page led me to Gnosticism. Now we're getting some traction!
My facination with this area of inquiry lies in this emphasis on personal experience. Those blessed to KNOW need not believe, though belief remains an adjuct to further exploration, a compass for navigating the terrain of the Transcendant.
Aldous Huxley reportedly referred to psychedelics as "a gratuitous grace, neither necessary nor sufficient for enlightenment", though an aid of great efficacy. I've been using Journey to Wild Divine for several months, and find it a highly efficacious aid, as well. Your research in this area intrigues me. This may be the latest gratuitous grace to aid the emergence of our species. A further elaboration of this path came to me via IONS work on the Global Consciousness Project. After listening to Dean Radin interview Roger Nelson on an archived teleconference, a little Googling led to www.psigenics.com, and a nifty tool called PsiTrainer. This is a downloadable random number generator and user interface package which facilitates enhancement of psi faculties. I've completed the 14 day free trial, with a 3.9% improvement in scoring over that period. Very, very interesting! I will be plunking down the $70 to buy the software soon.
Another area of technologically augmented consciousness extension I've been involved with involves a Monroe Institute Hemi-Sync product called Resonant Tuning, and is a group entrainment modality. I've posted two detailed descriptions of this practice on this site. Search my name to see them.
Your reference to delta frequency phase relationships is particulary intriguing. The Resonant Tuning work has led to juicy speculation on Phase Conjugation physics, initially developed in laser work, but apparently relevent in consciousness theory, as a conceptual framework for achieving coherence. We have associated the phenomenon of Bose-Einstein Condensation and non-local connectivity to a postulated stilling of a psi-field through wave interactions.
I sincerely look forward to fruitful dialog. Jeff DeCelles

Submitted by deepfield on September 16, 2006 - 11:16pm.

Master of kensho

Many of the sacred medicines (entheogens) have an infinite potential to offer, in terms of mind-altering capacity. But yet, this is only a potential, and even when it is infinite, it doesn't mean much, as long as you don't know how to get access to it. Gary, your assertions about the potential of entheogens bears no other conclusion to me.
There are varies methods to use this substance. The most obvious one is in the recreational context. But the mind-altering capacity of sacred medicine in recreational use is much lower as in internalized use.
In the unfolding of the mind-altering process a part of sacred medicine acts like an intelligent guide, who unfolds the unconscious material in a very individual way.
In a recreational setting this intelligent guide is more or less ineffective. This is due to the external orientation of the mind, which concentrates on surrounding objects and activities. Here the input comes from the outside, and the mind-altering capacity can only alter the visual and audible reception of what one sees or hears. In this case the individual, him- or herself, is the active part in deciding what the mind is confronted with.
The internalized method is the entrance to the sacred mystical path. Here, the sacred medicine can live up to its full potential. This sort of medicine needs a very passiv approach. The less one does, the more the sacred medicine unfolds its infinite potential. Only by surrendering completely it can start working properly, uncovering, reanimating and connecting unconscious material. And it does it not just for fun, but only for one reason: to heal.
There is one more important difference between the two approaches.
In recreational settings there is usually a tendency to get first all the good or neutral experiences out of the psychic stores. When they are empty and the sacred medicine starts to uncover the dark side of our being, the bad surprise is not bearable. This is when a bad trip begins.
In internalized use, the intelligent guide will not use off the positive content of the unconscious and open up the the dark side much more carefully. And after the confrontation with a part of it, there comes always a positive healing experience to compensate the fear and pain which were involved in uncovering the dark elements of the unconscious. Slowly it will lead the traveller on the mystic path deeper and deeper into the darkest corners in his or her unconscious, where the fear of death waits for its day to come.
There ist only a little drawback on this otherwise wonderful mystical path, the fear and pain involved to go deeper in to the unconscious will not become les, but become more, up to the point of unbearable proportions. The sacred mystical path is firstly a way of fright and pain, but for the endurance of it there is also a reward waiting. The name of it is peak-experience. This is one of the few entrances to genuine mystical experiences.
If one goes only far enough, the
„entering of the clear white light“ and much more is also possible.
And last but not least, in the right set and setting, and with the experiences properly integrated, it doesn't make anybody more accident prone.
To get really qualified information about the right use of etheogens and the true potential they contain you could read
„LSD Psychotherapy“ from Stanislav Grof and „Dark Night, Early Dawn“ from Christopher M. Bache.

Submitted by Gary Groesbeck on September 18, 2006 - 6:39am.

Thank you for engaging in this dialogue, it is exactly what I had hoped for.


Perhaps the old adage, "He who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know" has some merit, but silence does little to further scientific knowledge. Towards this end I have put myself out on point. At this stage of my life being enlightened or not, seeking or not, is of no real concern. What I would like to see is more clarity relating psychedelics to the naturally occurring "mystical" experience.


All I can say about my own experience is... without any preparation, and quite spontaneously, I entered into the "clear white light"... the timeless, spaceless, absolute reality and the ground of all existence. This was accompanied by a bliss so sublime that no poet could do it justice. There was also the sense of awakening from this reality as if awakening from a dream


This was proceeded by an intense rush of energy from the crown of my head downward, dissolving any sense of a physical body, as well as any sense of "self" or ego. On returning to this plain, this energy continued to course through every, minute, channel of my body for hours afterward. I continued in a state of bliss for days, almost unable to engage in conversation with those around me. To say the least my sense of self and physical reality were profoundly and forever changed.


I have discussed this experience with very few over the decades. For those who have not experienced it there was little understanding, and for those who have, there was little need to discuss.


Leary, Watts, Huxley, Grof, etc., I've read them all and known a few personally. My use of psychedelics proceeded Leary's somewhat enthusiastic revelations, and were always of a sacramental nature. Dosages far exceeded current recreational use. Because of my experience of the "clear white light" I had no fear of death, and consequently no "bad" trips. Whatever arouse was lovingly embraced.


The point I'm trying to make for research purposes is simply this... in my experience psychedelics are related to mystical experiences the same way dreams are related to waking reality. There are points of similarity, but it would be a category error to say they are identical. I am creating a survey on my website to gather some more solid data on this and will let whoever is interested know as soon as it's up and running.

Submitted by Brian Bothwell on November 20, 2006 - 9:17am.

I have an interest in entheogens/psychedelics and their relation to consciousness, altered states, and mystical experiences. Was glad to stumble onto this thread!

A yet-to-be-published book that looks to be very interesting on these subjects is Psychedelic Information Theory: Shamanism in the Age of Reason by James Kent (publisher of Trip magazine):

http://www.tripzine.com/pit/

More information on the book can be seen here:

http://tripzine.com/listing.php?id=pit00i

The entheogen that most fascinates me currently is ayahuasca. I haven't had the opportunity to experience it yet, but have researched it extensively.

Submitted by Jeffery DeCelles on January 3, 2007 - 6:13am.

Hi, Brian. Have you checked out www.matrixmasters.com, and sister site www.palenquenorte.org? Lorenzo Hagerty hosts these, knows his stuff. The podcasts are great, especially the large selection of Terrence McKenna audio. Enjoy! JED

Share This Page

User login

What's On My Mind

Entheogens and mystical experience

Gary Groesbeck | 09.15.06 | 03:41 PM

In the No.12 issue of "Shift" there is a short article in "World Transforming" relating psilocybin to mystical experiences. I want to enter a note of caution about correlating "psychedelics" or entheogens to true mystical experiences.

DiscoverDeclareShare